Bad Reputation

[diane]

Uh, what I am complaining about is that you smear my good name and you give me no avenue to correct it.

One more thing - by now you are probably using repbot here and there - or at least having a look.  Check my reputation (tell repbot a diane) - be prepared it goes on for a few pages, but at the very top you will see I have recieved some complaints - mostly from people who have dropped me, I complain and they complain in retaliation.  I dont blame repbot for that, or its creators, hosts, or other uses - the people who do that are pillocks, nothing more.  Things is - their complaints have no effect because of all the vouches I have picked up along the way - by not dropping and generally getting along with folk.  Thats all it takes - and demonstrates very definately that  

Apparently, there is no way to correct my reputation. This is strange, because even felons, after serving their jail sentence and acting in good behavior, have a chance for parole. But I guess I have none.

is not true.  And I would have been a good one to win around btw - I hand out vouches pretty readily to non droppers and good sports - and with all the experience I have gained, my vouch is worth quite a lot    

[don]

diane brings up an interesting point here, and the real weakness of RepBot.

Check my reputation (tell repbot a diane) - be prepared it goes on for a few pages, but at the very top you will see I have recieved some complaints - mostly from people who have dropped me, I complain and they complain in retaliation.

If you look at my reputation AND diane's, you will find both that I have a positive reputation, AND that I have a complaint from diane.  You will also find that I don't use RepBot.  No vouches or complaints from me about anybody.  What's going on here?

At one time I had a higher reputation on RepBot than anyone, so Biggles set out to actively acquire the highest reputation on RepBot.  This spelled the doom of an otherwise excellent bot.  We now have a sycophantic device with a single objective fact, the number of saved matches.  The rest is at best, "I'll vouch for you, if you'll vouch for me."  It's a friends circle, in this context, and has little to do with whether or not a player will complete a match.  It's a clicque-popularity index.

The worst is when some users on FIBS gang up on a new user to "10K" the new user.  For amusement, these FIBSters hit a new user with RepBot complaints.  The max is, for those with 10,000 exp. on FIBS, worth 10K RepBot demerits, hence the term, "10K".  I repeat, RepBot is an excellent idea, perhaps flawed in in its conception, definitely abused.  The result of this 10K abuse of RepBot is the loss of many new users, potentially valuable FIBSters.  diane does not address the effect of such abuse on new users.

THAT is how abuse of RepBot can affect users, diane:  New users, those who think RepBot is some official part of FIBS, instead of an abused, good idea, turned into a popularity contest and a weapon.  If you look at my complainers on RepBot, you will find nobody with whom I've ever dropped a match (in fact you will find users who invited me and dropped me for their amusement); if you examine the names, you will find multi-IDs complaining about me, and if you examine the ISPs, you will find more.  Why?  I don't dare say here, fearing censorship.   I play, I complete matches, and I dare to disagree.

--
don

[socksey]

All been said before.   -_-   *ho hum*

socksey



"We're just physically not physical enough." - Denny Crum, Louisville basketball coach

[burper]

At one time I had a higher reputation on RepBot than anyone, so Biggles set out to actively acquire the highest reputation on RepBot. This spelled the doom of an otherwise excellent bot
[\quote]

LOL!!!!
So the bot was excellent when you had the highest rep, but then was doomed when someone you dislike obtained a better one.

don, zip up your fly, we don't like this much exposure!

[duffy_duck]

Mr. Connell,

If you cannot take advices from women (somehow understandable)

Hehe

you either know diane and all other female goodies on fibs very well or you gonna get killed now...    

I like repbot quite a lot personally - which is due to its fuctionality and my use of it (and i didnt experience any "bad behavior" over it from other players)

to check the negative remarks on the basis of who actually did it is a good idea (tx diane   )

@ connell - i dont really think somebody wont play with someone just because he has 10 safed games (i sometimes get up to 8 myself) - negative remarks are something much more serious to consider. If you have a high rating with low experience just means (in my eyes) you are a damn good player (therefore i might play with you or not).
If i would have some complaints (thanks god not yet - but im working hard on it    ) i would rather discuss it with the people who gave it and try to solve that dispute so they delete it.

all the best
duffy

[connell]

I wanted to report back, since I have not been here in awhile.  I did not want you to forget how much I hate repbot.

I changed my name and started over again.  This time it took me longer to get to 1700.  So naturally I had much less complaints because there were less sore losers and less people wondering how I got there so fast.  But I did reach 1700 once again.

Now you could say, you aren't suppose to change your name.  And I will say, you are not suppose to slander my good name for no good reason.  I was taking abuse and slander for no reason, so I changed it.

I did get a complaint against me, however.  This guy and I were playing a 5 point match.  I was winning 3-1.  He won a game making the score 3-3.

At the end of the game that he won TYING the match, I said "I am sorry I have to leave for dinner" and I left.

He filed a complained against me because "I should have resigned the whole match."  Now does that make any sense?  For the life of me, I don't know what he is talking about.  The score was 3-3 in a 5 point match and we had not started the next game.  If he is right, there is no point in having saved matches.  Everyone should just resign the whole match when they have to leave.

When I asked him why he did that he said - "well I did it any way, bye."

I am perfectly willing to finish the match.  Of course there is no way for me to protest this complaint or have it adjusted or anything else.  It just sits there.

This is the problem here.  You have morons who file complaints for no reason and there is nothing the accused can do about it.  The FIBS FAQ says that you should not accuse someone of being a dropper unless he has left a game and then refuses to finish it when you ask him to do so.

But repbot morons file complaints for any half baked reason.  If a repbot moron does not like the way someone left or what someone said when he left, the the accuser files a complaint because he "feels" the person who left must be a dropper.  When the repbot moron does this, it is actually the repbot moron that is in violation of the FIBS rules.  You are not suppose to accuse someone of being a dropper unless you asked them to finish and they did not. 

Then of course socksy and Diane will engage in their circular reasoning that because someone gets mad that they have a bad rep on repbot it is proof that repbot must be right!  Could be they are instead mad because repbot is wrong and the accused does not like their good name being slandered and they are upset that it is impossible to do anything to correct it.

Your program is a great deal of effort and produces suspect results.  In my view it actually increases problems.  The worst treatment I have ever received on FIBS is from repbot morons.  I actually view you as a rogue group of violators of the FIBS FAQ because you accuse people of being droppers before there has been a request to continue and it is refused.  Can I file a complaint against all of you with repbot?  You are violating the FIBS rules after all.  I know you keepers of FIBS good conduct must agree that something most be done about violators of the FIBS rules.  So you must punish yourselfs.

I realized why you go through all this effort for suspect results and more fights than if you did not have this thing.   You are like the high school cheerleaders.  It makes you feel superior to make fun of the fat girls.  (I am not a woman by the way - what you do just reminds me of that).  You accomplish NOTHING else.

Good day.

[socksey]

Then of course socksy and Diane will engage in their circular reasoning that because someone gets mad that they have a bad rep on repbot it is proof that repbot must be right!

I think you don't listen very well.  I've never said anything like that.  What I said is that Repbot works for me.  I check the list of who complained and how many saved matches someone has.  Based on my combined knowledge, I decide whether to play someone or not. 

Sounds like you have run into someone with a short fuse and sounds like your own fuse isn't too long either.  Perhaps you could have been more courteous when leaving.  Give yourself some time.  Lighten up.  People with bad reps don't seem to have a problem finding matches.  It's not that big a deal.

Hate Repbot if you want.  That's OK.

socksey




"A baby is born with a need to be loved - and never outgrows it." - Frank A. Clark

[burper]

donnell and con should vouch for each other.

[connell]

Just writing to say I still think you guys are a bunch of idiots.

I changed my name about 1 and 1/2 years ago and I have had a good reputation ever since.  I assume that means you now have to listen to me since I have a good reputation.

Repbot is worthless.  That is what I as a repbot certified good person have to say about repbot.  I assume you will accept that now since I am certified good by your own stupid program.

How do I avoid playing with droppers, cheaters, and idiots then.  Three rules: 1) I don't play with people who have less than 200 experience, 2) I don't play with anyone who makes a positive comment about repbot or otherwise says that they don't play those who have a bad reputation on repbot, 3) anyone who asks me to vouch for them on repbot, I tell them they are an idiot for paying attention to repbot and not to play me any more, and 4) I play anyone who has a bad reputation on repbot.

Those are the only rules you need to avoid low lifes.  You don't need repbot.  So you guys are just playing with yourselves, wasting time and energy, and slandering people for no reason.

I tell you, after my experiences, particularly on this board, it is the greatest thrill to tell someone you won't play them because they pay attention to repbot.  It is a truly wonderful experience.  I thank you for that.

[sixty_something]

I tell you, after my experiences, particularly on this board, it is the greatest thrill to tell someone you won't play them because they pay attention to repbot.  It is a truly wonderful experience.  I thank you for that.

you're most welcome, connell

[socksey]

Just writing to say I still think you guys are a bunch of idiots.

I was wondering if you're aware that RepBot has been revamped some with improvements that you (connell) should approve of.  No more gang-banging is possible, which I always disapproved of.  I, personally, have never complained on a user unless I was dropped.  I have always advocated this.  I don't complain for reasons of extreme rudeness or any other reason than a drop.  You always have the option to complain against someone who has complained against you.  Even if you have a bad reputation, if you continue to play without dropping, your vouches will overcome your complaints.  You have the option to withdraw a complaint after some time and after you might change your mind about someone. 

socksey



"A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul." - George Bernard Shaw  

[PersianLord]

Just writing to say I still think you guys are a bunch of idiots.

I changed my name about 1 and 1/2 years ago and I have had a good reputation ever since.  I assume that means you now have to listen to me since I have a good reputation.

Repbot is worthless.  That is what I as a repbot certified good person have to say about repbot.  I assume you will accept that now since I am certified good by your own stupid program.

How do I avoid playing with droppers, cheaters, and idiots then.  Three rules: 1) I don't play with people who have less than 200 experience, 2) I don't play with anyone who makes a positive comment about repbot or otherwise says that they don't play those who have a bad reputation on repbot, 3) anyone who asks me to vouch for them on repbot, I tell them they are an idiot for paying attention to repbot and not to play me any more, and 4) I play anyone who has a bad reputation on repbot.

Those are the only rules you need to avoid low lifes.  You don't need repbot.  So you guys are just playing with yourselves, wasting time and energy, and slandering people for no reason.

I tell you, after my experiences, particularly on this board, it is the greatest thrill to tell someone you won't play them because they pay attention to repbot.  It is a truly wonderful experience.  I thank you for that.

The only good thing RBNG provides you is the saved games number of the inviter.

[sixty_something]

The only good thing RBNG provides you is the saved games number of the inviter.

"Good grief", as Charlie Brown would say .. PersianLord, that is way too simplistic a statement and repeating connell's rant is worthless .. while saved games is the most valueable metric in the ReoBotNG ASK command, it is by far NOT the "only good thing"

when the Rep points total is over 100K it becomes almost meaningless for comparison purposes which we all tend to do, obsessed as many of us are about our precious Rating .. i tend to clump all players into the same basket whether they have 100,001 or 1,100,001 Rep points .. however, a negative Rep is a good warning to look further or be cautious with a player you don't know .. i also know several players with bad Reps, i.e. negative points, that are really good people, but said or did something that offended a few too many people .. in almost all cases, i've seen folks like that turn around and become good FIBS citizens, as apparently connell has done under a different nick .. thus, RepBot performs an important self-policing function in our little community

further, a good reputation is really not that hard to obtain .. almost anyone can accumulate a Rep of 50K+ with little effort and responsible play .. as you probably know, when a vouch is issued the Exp of the voucher is used to assign Rep points up to 10,000 per vouch .. thus, playing and being vouched by as few as 5 players with 10K+ Exp can yield a good reputation rather quickly for any newbie, but that does not discount its value

so, Rep, like Exp, Rating, and saved games, is just another metric for evaluating players you don't know and might want to invite to play or may be inviting you

RepBot was abused in the past, but as socksey noted that abuse has recently been prevented with updates and improvements, thanks to inim

additionally, RepBotNG offers several other commands that can be very useful:

• List - provides a detailed list of vouches and complaints
• Alert - tells you when a player with whom you have a saved game logs in
• Friends - compares your vouchers and complaints issued with those received by another player

open the RepBotNG chat window and type HELP for other commands and syntax .. it ain't perfect, but it is a good tool when used responsibly and consistently

[socksey]

Noting that the new system is not perfect and leaves a loophole for bad players, yesterday, I tried to get a dropped player to resume a saved match but he would not.  He kept trying to get me to start a new match at the same 5 ptr.  I had been slightly ahead in the saved match.  Since I did not complain immediately on the dropped player, and giving him the benefit of the doubt, the 24 hours had elapsed, thereby preventing me from complaining on this player.  Now, I'd have to play him a new match in order to register my complaint.  So, now, it will be my policy to complain on any dropped match, and then remove the complaint later if the match is resumed and completed.   

socksey



When I got home last night, my wife demanded that I take her out to some place expensive.......... So I took her to a gas station!!!!!!! - Ray the Janitor

[PersianLord]

"Good grief", as Charlie Brown would say .. PersianLord, that is way too simplistic a statement and repeating connell's rant is worthless .. while saved games is the most valueable metric in the ReoBotNG ASK command, it is by far NOT the "only good thing"

when the Rep points total is over 100K it becomes almost meaningless for comparison purposes which we all tend to do, obsessed as many of us are about our precious Rating .. i tend to clump all players into the same basket whether they have 100,001 or 1,100,001 Rep points .. however, a negative Rep is a good warning to look further or be cautious with a player you don't know .. i also know several players with bad Reps, i.e. negative points, that are really good people, but said or did something that offended a few too many people .. in almost all cases, i've seen folks like that turn around and become good FIBS citizens, as apparently connell has done under a different nick .. thus, RepBot performs an important self-policing function in our little community

further, a good reputation is really not that hard to obtain .. almost anyone can accumulate a Rep of 50K+ with little effort and responsible play .. as you probably know, when a vouch is issued the Exp of the voucher is used to assign Rep points up to 10,000 per vouch .. thus, playing and being vouched by as few as 5 players with 10K+ Exp can yield a good reputation rather quickly for any newbie, but that does not discount its value

so, Rep, like Exp, Rating, and saved games, is just another metric for evaluating players you don't know and might want to invite to play or may be inviting you

RepBot was abused in the past, but as socksey noted that abuse has recently been prevented with updates and improvements, thanks to inim

additionally, RepBotNG offers several other commands that can be very useful:

• List - provides a detailed list of vouches and complaints
• Alert - tells you when a player with whom you have a saved game logs in
• Friends - compares your vouchers and complaints issued with those received by another player

open the RepBotNG chat window and type HELP for other commands and syntax .. it ain't perfect, but it is a good tool when used responsibly and consistently

That's your opinion.

In my opinion, when a player has over 1K experience and the number of his saved games is below 5, you can be sure that he's not at least a dropper, regardless of what's his reputation.

And no, there are still ways to abuse the system. For instance, if a high rep player is about to lose and then drops & make a complaint about the poor low rep newbie, the reputation of the dropped newbie becomes badly negative, while the reputaion of the high rep dropper remains almost intact, especially if the newbie is not yet familiar with RBNG's functions and fails to make a comlaint in the 24-hours deadline. Thus, a smart dropper might well follow this strategy: getting high exp players to play, play nicely and politely and then getting a vouch and after reaching enough exp/rep, going to drop the newbies when about to lose. And note that how difficult will this make the situation for those miserable newbies whose reps have become sub-zero, even though they were NOT the guilty ones.

Another deficiency is that an abuser might make a comlaint about you, with no chance of reprecussion for you. For instance, after the match, he can wait until about 23 hours and then go for compaining about you and since there is a time limit to register vouches/complaints you can't have revenge.

All in all, as I said, the number of saved games is the most important factor to decided whether a certain fibsroid is a dropper or not. And again, this is MY opinion.

Regards

[lewscannon]

. Thus, a smart dropper might well follow this strategy: getting high exp players to play, play nicely and politely and then getting a vouch and after reaching enough exp/rep, going to drop the newbies when about to lose.

That seems like a lot of work to me. If you're going to play nicely against good players, why not just keep playing them? And why waste your time playing poor players? It's like shooting fish in a barrel. (not that I won't accept invites from low-rated players for short matches; I don't invite them myself)

[PersianLord]

Thus, a smart dropper might well follow this strategy: getting high exp players to play, play nicely and politely and then getting a vouch and after reaching enough exp/rep, going to drop the newbies when about to lose.

That seems like a lot of work to me. If you're going to play nicely against good players, why not just keep playing them? And why waste your time playing poor players? It's like shooting fish in a barrel. (not that I won't accept invites from low-rated players for short matches; I don't invite them myself)

Because you want to build a good rep first so that if you go bottom-feeding and it requires you to drop a newbie from time to time, most of people would blame the newbie for dropping, judging by the comparing of reputaions.

[inim]

Just read this interesting chit-chat, a few notes:

@Connell: You seem to confuse the messenger and the message. Repbot has no opinion, it merely collects human opinions about you. If you are the same "nice guy" in matches as you are in this forum, better avoid playing me -- chanches are good your rep would get worse. The other issue is that there is no player "connell" on fibs, all we have is your claims, which can in no way be backed with a real repbot lookup. Thus what you do is little more than public whining, there is no substance.

@PersianLord: Yes, I consider the # of saved games the more important metric than repbot's score as well. I would say most here do. I check the saved games first, and if in doubt i consult the repbot score. But different players have different strategies, and repbot is a neutral bookkeeper only. I actually told e.g. some tourney directors here who put high entry barriers for trourneys (40K rep required and stuff) that this is too high. But that's only my opinion, beside maintaining repbot's code I am just a normal user myself too.

@socksey: The active notification on incoming complaints and vouches is #1 in my TODO for a while now, I will sit down a few hours and hack the code finally. You (and many others who pointed that issue out) are right, it is a missing fundamental feature.

[spielberg]

Ave ingo,


Here's my prediction for your hack. IF EXIST (vouch/complaint) ON "Player 1" from "Player 2" THEN ALLOW (vouch/complaint) ON "Player 2" from "Player 1". Should be easy! (Tell me I at least got the logic right.)


Thanks for your considerable work all over - tho' I'm told you live to code.




Steve