GammonBots

[Tom]

I have been looking at the GammonBots trying to get them 100% stable and I have almost got it.
(I just have one memory leak to look at... driving me nuts)

I was also looking at adding match logging.

I was thinking of allowing the bot to generate a standard format (JellyFish?) and email the match to the player.
I could possibly also run match analysis and send the match in gnu format (SGF) or maybe some other format.

I think that JellyFish (mat) or gnubg (SGF) are best.

Thoughts?

Is this something that is useful?

Tom

[socksey]

Sounds like a wonderful addition to me, Tom!   

I'm not sure which is best, but most seem to use Gnu.  At least that seems to be my experience.     GL getting it all together! 

socksey



"You've got to do your own growing, no matter how tall your grandfather was." - Irish Proverb

[diane]

Is this something that is useful?

Tom

If it is an 'opt in' service - preferably with a player being able to make the request for each match as they want them...simply, I dont want the bot emailing me loads of matches, but there might be one or two that interest me.

[sorrytigger]

Hi Tom,

thx for all your work.

Jellyfish and SGF seem best to me, although not standardized, but at least open.
I personally tend to analyse myself. But I'd have no problem letting my email-filters drop those mails. Or even better if I could tell that bot, to mail it to me. In case I don't tell him, he won't send........

Andreas

[ah_clem]

I only very rarely play the bots (my take is that if I want to play a bot, gnubg is always there) so maybe what I have to say doesn't matter.  But since my client software already logs the matches, I'm not seeing a whole lot of utility in the bot logging it also. 

As for format, either .sgf or .mat would work for me.  Presumably the .sgf would come pre-analyzed so that might be better (and actually offer something that my client doesn't.)

That's my $.02

Now a quick question: is GammonBot actually gnubg "under the hood" or are you using some other engine?  Thanks.

[Tom]

But since my client software already logs the matches, I'm not seeing a whole lot of utility in the bot logging it also. 

As for format, either .sgf or .mat would work for me.  Presumably the .sgf would come pre-analyzed so that might be better (and actually offer something that my client doesn't.)

Not all clients can log, take phone users for example.
Telnet users as well (like Patti  )

Now a quick question: is GammonBot actually gnubg "under the hood" or are you using some other engine?  Thanks.

Yes the Gammon bots are gnubg

Tom

[sixty_something]

Tom, the match logging option is an interesting one .. if it is truly an option that one could "subscribe" to with an email address, i'd do it .. however, i am not playing the GammonBots at present and likely won't if their ratings remain over 2000 .. i have been playing the Blunder_Bots rated between 1700 and 1800 which i am enjoying .. additionally, the bots don't seem to mind the inequity in rating points won and lost with a player with low experience like me, at present .. for example, i won a round one match in a tournament today against a player with a rating of 1953 .. that one 3-point match was worth about 18 rating points to me and i assume cost him the same

during my year away from FIBS and during the baseball off-season, i played many matches with GNUbg and enjoyed it very much .. i tinkered and tinkered with various settings of GNUbg such that it was difficult to beat, but not supernatural .. getting those setting correct, as you probably know, is an interesting challenge

so, for my 2-cents regarding the GammonBots, i'd like to see the optional logging as well as varied ratings like the BlunderBots .. btw, i have noticed that the BlunderBots rated in the mid-1700's are not making stupid blunders .. so, whoever set those up did a good job, imo (was that you, too, Tom?)

[Tom]

A subscription service, I did not think of that... I like that idea

Yes I have been tweeking the BlunderBots to make them a bit weaker.

I may need to attempt to weaken them some more... of maybe come up with a new series of bots that are weakest

At some point I might want to not allow WEAK players to play the GammonBots becuase the rating changes...

tom

[sixty_something]

so, you do the Blunder_Bots, too 

i like some of the features like reminding me of saved games and waiting to resume

i'd also like a variety of strengths .. for me, i like 1750-1850, i.e. a good human rating .. for 2000+, i'd as soon just play off-line, but even then i just get bored of getting beaten .. i learn best (i think) when playing against someone or something about 100 points better than me

i think i like your idea, assuming i understand it, of having bots with lower ratings for lower rated players .. or are you saying too many abuse that? seems like a 200 point differential might be a good threshhold for allowing weaker players to play any bot

on setting strength levels in GNUbg, i noticed that various setting caused really stupid cube play or caused cube play to *always* be supernatural and checkers play to be absurd .. i tweaked and tweaked and came up with what i thought was a nice blend .. i'll get back to you with my settings, if you'd be interested .. i'd be interested to know how you have set up the various Blunder_Bots or if they are all the same

anyway, great work you're doing, Tom  .. now, see if you can resurrect a_bot_named_sue .. i liked how she/it quoted lyrics from Johnny Cash songs .. better still, create a Willie_Bot that quotes lyrics from Willie Nelson songs and occasionaly takes a doobie break and drops you as the bot goes back to Willie's bus for a smoke 

[diane]

A subscription service, I did not think of that... I like that idea

*cough cough*, erm, read the third post down in this thread...  

I only say this to reinforce that I am another in favour of subscription - ideally with the chance to request specific matches - not all of them. As clem mentions, on this PC, my matches are logged and analysed at will - but when I play from other locations, that is not always the case.

[diane]

Yes I have been tweeking the BlunderBots to make them a bit weaker.

They were playing up this morning - I am not sure if it is the tweaking...

I started a match with one, it rolled an opening 4-1, but it didn't move...then it nagged me..

I left and resumed, kibitzed move, telled move, swore...nothing worked 

It nagged me again, then dropped me...I don't want the bot script running and to be penalised for that as if I dropped the bot - so please let us know as soon as a fix is in, so I can chase it for a resume.


erm.... I just went to call up the oldboard for info....-> oldboard BlunderBot_III
** There's no saved match with a player called 'BlunderBot_III '.


Yet we had this conversation this morning...

You kibitz: Hi from sunny Oz, enjoy!
BlunderBot_III kibitzes: Are you there?
You kibitz: move
You kibitz: move
BlunderBot_III says: Another invitiation is pending. Try again in 7 seconds if I'm still not playing then.
You kibitz: move
BlunderBot_III kibitzes: Hi heinzmz.
You kibitz: blundery can say hi, but not move this 4 1
You kibitz: it is obviously much too hard
heinzmz kibitzes: i also have an open game - he didnt move
BlunderBot_III kibitzes: Are you there?
You kibitz: yes, are you?
You kibitz: move
You tell BlunderBot_III: move
BlunderBot_III says: Hi! I may be a World Class player/bot, but my chatting skills are far below human, so stop buggin me!
BlunderBot_III kibitzes: Are you there?

Then it left....anyone care to comment?

The show saved gives....**BlunderBot_III          1                0 -  0


Is it the oldboard command that isnt working???

[diane]

I just stopped by a match to watch Blunderbot III, it still isn't working now...can it be fixed quickly - it is starting a stream of matches which aren't going past the first move.

BlunderBot is also affected - so both need attention - I think the others are fine.

[socksey]

I had the same experience with III yesterday.  I sent an email to Tom about it.

socksey



"That [state] which separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards, and its fighting by fools." Thucydides, 'The Peloponnesian Wars'

[sorrytigger]

ParlorPlay won't log either.

Andreas

[sixty_something]

i had a similar problem with BlunderBot_III, but, after these reports and messages i left for Tom, III started up and finished just fine yesterday .. thanks for the fix, Tom

i also had a problem with BlunderBot_II getting stuck when it logically would be offering a cube in the first Post-Crawford game .. i described what was happening in a FIBS message to Tom .. later we happened to be on-line at the same time .. Tom watched it, took _II off line, made a fix and it worked fine thereafter .. total elapsed time was well under ten minutes .. great job again, Tom

[Tom]

I took the bots down over night while I did more testing and I believe I have them fixed.

With the high number of saved matches I also decided it was a good idea to implement Resume-Inviting
by the bots.

The bot will look at the saved match list (Online and Ready) and invite people for resume after each match it plays.
(During the 30 sec resume match window)

This should help get the matches played for the active players.

tom