Bagolympic courtesy

[don]

I was playing in a Bagolympic tourney this afternoon when the following situation arose:
      My opponent doubled me;
      I requested a pipcount from FIBS;
      I couldn't get it because of my opponent's toggles.

(FYI:  If you 'toggle allowpip' FIBS will not give you OR your opponent a pip count.  Many users can get this count from their own GUIs, others toggle it on and off to their advantage.)

After several requests to my opponent with no repsonse, I asked the tourney director to decide.  The TD was not sure, but I played on.

If you think about it, using the FIBS toggle to deny your opponent a pip count is unfair if you are using a GUI that computes pips for you.  In this case, my opponent WAS USING such a GUI.

This is why FibsLeaGammon rules specify such a situation:
     http://fibsleagammon.free.fr/rules.htm
     Matches are to be played using the Crawford rule, doubling cube
           and allowpip toggled on.

Apparantly some tourney directors have not been faced with the rare situation where a user abuses this technical point.  I hope this will help them out.  The intent of FibsLeaGammon is clear, pips toggled on.

--
don

[socksey]

Hmmmmmmmmm............this is a first for me!  Seems a bit unfair, but on the other hand, since Fibsleagammon and Bagolympics are two separate intities, the rules must be considered for each.  Fibsleagammon rules spells this out clearly, but Bagolympic rules do not.  I would suggest the Bagolympic director/s attend to this and spell it out in the rules.

As for Mini-Matches, the rule with be as with Fibsleagammon.  The pip count stays on.

socksey



"It is only the present danger of an immediate evil and an intent to bring it about that warrants Congress in setting a limit to the expression of opinion." - Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr

[diane]

There is some information missing from this post.  Firstly, the 'opponent' has been running with no pipcount for so long that the fact it is toggled off (to force her to do her own counting in better preparation for live events where the pip count isnt there in front of you) was forgotten. I guess because most other players use interfaces which offer pipcounts themselves - not many players notice. When don made his problem known to the TD, I toggled the pipcount back on for him straightaway - I would not deny him this tool which he so clearly cannot play without. (oops guess I gave it away there ).  I told him I had put the pip count on for him (of course I still can't see it) and the match continued.

Since I will continue to play with the pip count toggled off - for practice - after all fibs is just practice, if I am playing a tourney match I will do my best to remember to turn it back on - but a simple reminder will always work - I am happy to oblige for a slightly more special match.

For opponents in dons situation of course - they will have to go via the TD.

[don]

Hmmm, seems I need to note another word that has a different meaning in American English and English English.

When don made his problem known to the TD, I toggled the pipcount back on for him straightaway

The word, "straightaway", seems to mean 10 minutes on the other side of the pond.  In fact diane would not even reply to a request from me with a simple "yes" or "no".  I'm guessing she argued with the TD too, considering the time involved.  I'm not surprised she's making a personal issue of this, though I'd hoped for better behavior.  That's why I left her name out of the original post.

According to her post, diane is willing to turn the counter on for anyone but me with a simple request.  She wants my requests to go through the TD.  What a strange compulsive obsession...

--
don

[sarah]

lol don speaking of obsessions....

[diane]

To clarify,

For opponents in dons situation of course - they will have to go via the TD.

This does of course mean 'gagged'.  I am sure this leads into another discussion about gagging and courtesy, count me out - you put in the work to earn a place on my villain list - you can continue to enjoy the outcome for a long time to come, and your communications will have to come via a third party.
As to the conversation I had with the TD - ask them rather than having a bit of a 'guess', course you get many more arguments this way - dont ya 

[don]

Tourney directors take note:

To clarify,

For opponents in dons situation of course - they will have to go via the TD.

For opponents in dons situation of course - they will have to go via the TD.
This does of course mean 'gagged'

If diane is playing in one of your tourneys, she will require you to be an unnecessary intermediary with any players she has on her hit list.  I don't know why she can't keep personal problems out of FibsLeaGammon tournaments run by herself, let alone make problems for other TDs.

While not specifically cited as rules for Bagos, I think the guidelines from http://fibsleagammon.free.fr/rules.htm should be in effect for all FibsLeaGammon tourneys, including:

Come and Have Fun in a community where BackGammon Players find an opportunity to play matches with some of the nicest people on the net. Be courteous and fair, respect each other, and enjoy this game. If you can't do so, please don't sign up!

--
don

[Tomawaky]

I don't want to read all that have been written down.
But it's easy to think that don is just happy to speak about detail in rules that can always be argued.
I won't post any other post here, but just want to say that there is not so many TD and it is not so easy as it might be.
And I definitly think that TD can host tourney as they want...nothing more